As far as I know KARNNOS is a duo, right? Could you tell me a bit about people who involved in the band?
Well, actually we're a quartet for quite a while now, but initially we were a duo, right. Karnnos started out to be a collaboration between me and A. Guerra, and as I usually say it all begun with the urge that we felt to make something different from what we were doing (I was finishing my second Wolfskin record, that took me nearly 3 years to accomplish and he was playing metal percussion on a industrial\ambiental project called Vento Aziago). The two "additional" members, that quickly earned their full membership with their work and total commitment, were Belmil and Nerunbrir. I met both at different situations and with some degree of ACASO, and they naturally found their place on what we were doing, I think that after a few hours playing they were already part of Karnnos... One thing I can tell you about all of us is that Karnnos is not our only musical effort, we all have "solo" projects on our own. This is very good because we can follow our own personal ideas on our "solo" projects and Karnnos acts as a joining, as a coming-together of ideas and sensibilities. I speak for myself; Karnnos is like a balsam after a long and hard travel... My work with Wolfskin is so devastating physically, mentally and spiritually that I really need the "comfort" of Karnnos. In Wolfskin everything is on my back, I have the clear notion that I have to do almost everything and to rehearse with Karnnos is great cause I can sit comfortably watching them work and giving my contribute to the collective work... I think that for others Karnnos work in a similar way, so it's really a work of great freedom and pleasure... I don't know what more can I tell you about us, for me art is far more important than the persons that make it. I prefer to remain "anonymous" giving the music we make all the attention and credit because I don't agree with the "cult of the individual" that is common in all kinds of music. I can only add that we're all persons that don't like to accommodate to things around us, we like to think by our own and make things as we want not as others expect us to do. But the ways we accomplish and express it are very varied and I think that our richness comes of that variety of our personalities. United on a cause using multiple means to reach it.
I had a chance to listen only to your Dun Scaith and 7". Unfortunately, it's not easy to get albums when you live in Belarus :) So, could you tell me a bit about albums I have missed so far?
You missed half of our releases; our discography is as follows, in chronological order - "A burial in flames" (cdr, 1998, Reaping Horde), "Deatharch Crann" (cd, 2000, Cynfeirdd), "Bearer of order, bringer of chaos" (7", 2001, Hau Ruck!) and "Dun Scaith" (cd, 2002, Cynfeirdd).
Could you tell me a bit about latest news and plans of KARNNOS?
We're working on a record and a 10"; both shall be released next year. It's always troublesome to talk about something that's not finished, and can be altered in the process of making. Anyway, I can say that it will be a record on the trail of "Dun Scaith", with some folk songs and dark-ambient soundscapes. But this new songs have been recorded very fast, in a couple of sessions, and I see them as more spontaneous than those on "DS". But this can be erroneous, I don't know. "DS" took a lot of time to record, we started it when we we're ending "Deatharch crann" and only finished it some months before the edition, so it took around 2 years to record. Also lots of parts were recorded on a "solo" situation, with just me and the person that was playing and even some parts were sent by mail. Together with the feeling that we wanted to give to the record it makes "DS" pace very introspective, almost like chamber music... The new songs are being recorded with the whole formation and maybe that is giving them a kind of "live" feeling I don't know... Music is like wine; we have to let it get old to discover it's whole and unique flavour... The record will be called "Undercurrents and lost horizons", two important things to me, the undercurrents of history and life and the lost horizons of the past and dreams... The 10" (that will be a picture disc) still hasn't a definitive name; maybe it will be called "The stone of destiny". It's the name of one of my favourite tracks of the record and 10" (it will appear on both, in different versions), related with Lia Fail, the Irish stone of destiny, a centre of renewal of divine energy in our world and thus a symbol of sovereignty and destiny... It will have 4 or 5 tracks and we want it to be more dark-ambient oriented, a kind of unique piece on our discography. For me it's a way of pointing out the importance of that field of Karnnos to us; I don't want people to view Karnnos as a folk band with some ambient moments. Both sides are important, fundamental. While folk songs can be the more spontaneous and bucolic side of us the dark-ambient pieces are the shadows that hides in the deepest forests... I prefer the last but both are part of Karnnos. We have nothing else on our plans than these records; one of our members is on a foreign adventure so we can't think about concerts for now...
We experience days when almost everybody can start playing music. Especially it's actual for industrial/ electronic music. Computers made it easier. At the same time the number of really talented musicians is pretty the same as it used to be before that artistic freedom, unfortunately. It looks like most so called "musicians" play just for fun. What about you? What makes you create music?
You're right, the talented, inspired artists are not more now than previously, and the problem is that the shit hides the pearls most of the times... But at the same time this "freedom" allows many persons that couldn't afford to buy musical equipment to start something, which can be good. Main problem is not the fact that making music is easier with computers. The problem is the intentions, the motivations of the so-called musicians... Inspiration, will, long hours of loneliness working hard; these are the things that make an artist. A vision, a path, an illumination are the sort of guidelines to the work of artists, not mere fun or worst, vanity. I have nothing against people that make music for fun; this age of decay is the age of luxury and body sensations... But quickly they have the impression that they're the best and they're artists and they aren't. They can be considered performers never creators. This has begun when the line between the performer and creator vanished; in classical music you had the composer and the executioner. A person can be a great performer and yet have no creativeness. "Freedom" in art (I use the comas cause I don't see the democracy as freedom, only as the dictatorship of the many; true freedom is not this) is like "freedom" in other aspects of modern civilisation - the lowering of quality, the inversion of the pyramid. I put it clearly: only the few really inspired should be considered artists. The others would have their place as performers. Like in all things, there are few that can do things very good, some that make them good and many that don't have a clue about how to make it. In art like in politics, culture, education, and so on, it's the ones that don't have the slightest idea of how things are that are leading and the ones that have a "eye opened" are ostracised as eccentric or lunatic. Or worst, as a friend of mine says, "they have the wrong eye opened" meaning that intelligence and creativeness are put under the wrong banners and causes. But this world is lost as a whole, there are no more dreams, no more ideals, no more causes, just economy. So art has become a business. I can't really blame those that enter in the logic of this world... And I see it in every ground; the "underground" is filled with I-wanna-be-a-star-just-let-me-the-chance lads. Just consider that Marilyn Manson sells records cause he's a freak and has freakish habits (at least to the "common" mind) - now look at the underground and see how many "freaks" are selling records for their weirdness and not for the quality of their music... I can think on a bunch... It's decadence in all its striking and depressive strength, nothing to do about it so why bother...? The perfect example of a real artist is William Blake. Although I don't like some of his work (mainly due to some Christian influences...) he has created a world of his own using different forms of art. That's a creative person. I can say that making music is nearly accidental in my case. As I say below what was clear for me some years ago was that I didn't wanted to rely on a "safe", "common" life, I wanted to explore and discover new possibilities... I discover them on Tradition, a system of thinking and way of life that seemed suitable to me - where I found my own ideas... The problem is that there are no more traditional societies in Europe. So art seemed to be a good way of exploring the meanings and ideologies of Tradition, at the same time that it allows me to discover my-self on a unique and profound way... I could be a sculptor or blacksmith and find the same things... I started making music without means, because the sound as physical reality and its effects on human consciousness always attracted me much. When I "discovered" Wolfskin and made some tracks of dense, oppressive atmospheres I said, "this is it, what I want to do". This naive beginning grown stronger and wider on me but the reason stills the same - the respectful honouring of Tradition, of our roots and the European Heathen Spirit. I don't want to gain followers or to be recognised in some way by what I do. In traditional societies the role of artists is not to be recognised as such, on an individual ground; they're the ones that pick the archetypes, symbols and myths of a given tradition and transmute them into art expression. That's what I'm doing, selecting the traditional archetypes (symbols, myths, etc) that find echo inside me and transmute them into music. You can be unaware of the archetypes behind the songs, but if I\we make our job right they're somewhere there, waiting for you when the rational mind is numb... I remember something that Rik of Fluxeuropa said about "DS", that he got asleep hearing the record. That was not meant as an insult and that's precisely the intention of the record, to slowly drive you to oblivion, to dreams and the river that the souls cross when they are to reincarnate. To fall asleep in the last track is to let the sound expand in your head, reaching echoes lost in it... I feel more like a craftsman. I don't have a soul of warrior (although in this age of decay everyone that steps aside has to fight in some way) nor of druid (I have some difficulty in thinking on a pure abstract, metaphysical way). My way is the threshold between the visible and invisible, the boundaries between the concrete manifestation and the realms of the un-manifested (above and below). That's the domain of a craftsman that by his hands creates concrete expressions of immaterial forces.
How does reaction and opinions of listeners affect your music? Do you care?
It depends of the value I give to the listener! If you're meaning the anonymous listener that buys our record and sends me a mail saying "more guitars, more guitars" no, they don't affect me at all. But there are some opinions that I care about. Before sending a record to a label, or releasing it myself, I usually show it to 5 or 6 persons and their opinions count. Never on the direction of the record, I mean, on the spiritual\ideological side that gives it meaning to me. That only concerns me\us. On that field I accept no opinions. But on a more esthetical level I like to have others opinions, sure. I also like to read the reviews to our records; some are very instructional on that same level.
Your music and your lifestyle quite different from "common". Your opinions and your views quite opposite to dominating ideology of our time... what makes you go against the stream? I guess you agree with me that it's impossible to imagine that your views will become common in our society.
Nature and life are the great books from which I learned - and I never saw anything about being like the others... One has to Be truly and fully, to develop freely according to his\her specific (personal) and inherited (collective) nature, nothing else. No books, no morals, no philosophy, the departing point of such process must be the self. Our way is inside us, in our inner-most being\spirit. If I look around and everyone looks to me as blind, numb or stupid what can I do? I don't want to change them; I don't care if their life is miserable in my opinion. But very earlier in my life I raised my head and thought, "there's more than this" and went searching, beyond the pastures of the vain herds... I never said that I wanted to see my views accepted by many - I don't... But I miss the point of safety in social\mental\spiritual terms. It's safer to go along with other's perspectives, even if a person senses that something is not right. It's safer to accept what is said to be right, it's safer not to question the "authorities" (I'm not talking about police or government, I mean science, philosophy, religion and so forth, the modern cages for the mind). It's also safer to be extravagant but keeping some touch with the herd. It's safer to see the devastation caused by the great USA and think "humm, democracy costs something" like if the modern world is the paradigm of "good". I don't really go against the tide; that would mean that I wanted to go against it at some point. No, I follow my own tide and nature, that happens to be the opposite of the dominating one... When I walk on the mountains or forests I rarely follow the existing trails, only when they are useful to me... As a friend once said on such a situation "the trails are there because everyone walks on them. But there's a thousand good places to walk instead of the trails...". That's it, why should we follow others ways? My nature is found, I know myself (not totally but on a profound level). The only possible thing I can do is to follow it, no matter how uncommon it is. What is "normal" is just what many do, even if many do pathological things. For me the modern world is the worst possible world, the world were the people "rule" and all absurdities are possible. A circus of aberrations is what I see in this world. Since the advent of Christianity only decay prevails. I like technology, I like computers and to travel, I like many things of this world, I don't think that we should live in caves. But the ideological bases of it are wrong and absurd. Everything has been inverted, the values that should be preserved are tainted and degraded, replaced by strange conceptions, all the"-isms" that have been ruling men for quite a while. But there's not so much strangeness on my way - I try to live according to Nature and Tradition, where the stronger remain and men must act according to cosmic\sacred codes and laws. It's something that men has done until the fall of Roman Empire and will probably follow in the future. It's the modern world that is totally wrong; it remembers me those rodents that I don't recall the name, which commit collective suicide on a cliff. Evola said that the modern world is a body rolling down the cliff with increasing speed. Seeing Bush junior in action makes me think that the bottom is pretty near... But seriously, just look at Nature and tell me where do you find democracy; which species spend efforts to keep their weak members, their "criminal" ones? And then you can say "men is no longer an animal" - something that I doubt when seeing what's happening in this rotting world. Men can be a builder of greatness or a beast of destruction. I don't say that in the Ancient World everything was noble and nice, no it wasn't. But there were causes, higher than men itself, higher than the individual own comfort. Look at the pyramids, megalithic sites or cathedrals - all are the result of a cause. In traditional societies the individual is a part of such cause, has the determination to endeavour works that he probably will not see finished in life; but his hands, his soul will always be a part of such monument. Right now there's no causes, only entropy on men... Entropy is disorder, unbalance, and desegregation. The individual life and individual "freedom" is put as the only acceptable value; but loosing the determination of causes (that control violence, turning it to an objective, the cause) this freedom is turned against others as uncontrolled violence. I can summarise the differences of perspective in two words: whether Tradition is concerned with "equilibrium" Modernity is built upon "progress". One means to preserve a balance with nature, to see our actions affecting the whole tissue of reality and therefore being careful with them. Equilibrium between men and nature but also between body and soul and visble\invisible worlds. Progress is to exploit everything in order to go forward, never satisfied, always needing more, to have more... My question is - to get where? The individual is the last possible fortress of the spirit, of nobility and traditional creeds - I, as others, make myself one of such fortresses.
I have never been in Portugal. Could you tell me a bit about your country? What about your neofolk/ industrial scene? Is it popular?
Portugal is a small yet diverse country. The landscape varies from the dry and half-desert South to the mountainous and green North, were I live. We have some really wild places, which makes our country unique... I mean, I've been in Brittany to visit Carnac and it's all filled with tourists and merchandising. Here you have lots of small villages lost in the mountains that don't even understand the meaning of "merchandising". I like to travel through them, seeing faces carved by time and weather, faces of an untamed nature that survives there... And the remains of past, luckily untouched by inquisitions; around my town there's around 50 remains of Celtic villages, some pre-historic carvings and some Templar churches (with not-so-christian imagery). And that's the usual scenario in the interior of Portugal, the sea coast has all the development and industry, we have fresh air and historic remaining... On a cultural level Portugal is very rich, although most of Portuguese doesn't realises that. Our first ancestors were the Iberos, a culture contemporary of Egypt and also very developed. After the invasion of the Celts they mingled together, creating the Celtiberos on the centre and south. The Romans conquered most of it, but they faced a very hard resistance and couldn't control the whole territory. After the Romans we were invaded by Germanic tribes, that stayed for a long time and are a very important subtract of our collective mind (we still find many usage that are of Germanic origin; there's also many of Celtic origin, but I see the Germanic heritage as more consistent). The South was colonised by the Arabs for a long time and it was already as a nation that we fought them out of here. Our first king was a Templar knight and that order had a strong influence on our country, especially in the preservation of older traditions. The Templars were far more respectful with older traditions than the rest of christian scum, which burned what they didn't, understood... Portugal is more known by the discoveries of XV century, but for me that's were decay begins. Ambition took over kings and suddenly they wanted to control half of the world (in fact Portugal and Spain divided the world in two, like there were no other countries). You know what happens when you want to take more than you can lift... You fall down. Now we're still falling, loosing identity and breeding corruption, following the wrong examples in topics as immigration and criminality, not thinking for ourselves as a nation, following instead the stupidity around us. This is a short overview of our history on my own personal view; for a small country I think we have the luck of having a varied and vast heritage... Replaced nowadays by the african and brazilian "cultures"... Neofolk and industrial music hardly have a "scene" in Portugal, most people prefer the "overground" music, and when we talk about more underground movements I think that heavy-metal and that sort of alternative-rock are by far more popular. But I'm not the best person to talk about it, I live on a small town, far from central cities (such as Lisbon and Oporto) where that kind of things can happen. And I'm not very interested on such movements, I always prefer to remain on my corner, aside from movements or scenes.
I continue my previous question. What do you like most in your country? And what do you hate most? What do you think about EU and disappearing of borders?
What I like - the wild landscape, the vast cultural heritage, the food and wine... What I hate - just one thing, the lack of respect and appreciation of Portuguese for the richness they have; instead of valuing what's ours and is disappearing they are quickly substituting it by American movies and food, Brazilian music and "culture", African dances and so on... The people that once ruled over half world are now a stupid amount of foreign traces. I may seem very racist but my point is this - why should we have on our countries those that expelled us from theirs? Civilisations are like animals, some hunt some are hunted. We used to hunt and hunt big, now we're just a sitting duck. A pathetic sitting duck that smiles while being ripped to pieces. Like I said, I'd prefer not to have the discoveries on our past. Galicia (the north of Spain, right above us) is worth all our african colonies, I'd prefer to have it instead of all that Portugal once possessed. EU makes me very depressed. I can't stand this globalisation thing and seeing it on Europe is terrible. I'd like to see Europe united under a strong ideal - this EU shit is for economical purposes and there's no union at all, with some countries, mine unfortunately, licking the filthy boots of USA instead of joining forces with Germany and France against uncle Sam... But even then everything would be too sunk down in politics and economics, European bureaucrats are some kind of demons, inventing new ways of torturing people... I don't like to think about, there's nothing one can do; I prefer to focus on my work, letting the past awaken in me. Rougher times, but at least with some notion of bravery and honour.
Russian director A. Tarkovsky once said, that Art is the way to share your pain with others. Do you consider your music as Art?
First of all I have to say that Tarkovsky is a wonderful artist, and movies like "Stalker" are poetry in movement... But I don't quite share his definition of Art. For me art is rather a sublimation, to pick a materia prima and take the fire out of it, the deeper, imanent spirit within it... It may be something painful but also joyful. Most of the times I'm a very positive person regarding my own life, trying to preserve those things I care about; and when tragedy comes to me I try to live it with dignity... No, definitely I'm not a "pain" kind of person; I never feel that I have to share pain with others... I'd understand Tarkovsky statement better if he'd be talking about nostalgia (the famous "saudade" word, that only exists in Portuguese), and in such I'd agree with him. Because even when art is pain, it's not made in the moment of pain but with the subjective remembrance of that pain; as I told you before, art for me is the remembrance of Tradition, the nostalgia of traditional heathenism... It's not a personal remembrance but remembrance nonetheless; because the Ideas, the Archetypes of the sacred are the same as then, times changes but not spirit. But for me nostalgia is rather a positive thing, I usually prefer to read (and dream) about the lost past instead of depressing myself thinking about the decadence that surrounds me. Actually the only moments I contact with the modern world is when I'm at work, the rest of my life is spent on another times; my feet are in this century but by head is way behind Christ (rotting) era... I'm a traditional artist - my personal experiences are not what matters, just the expression of the traditional Forms and Ideas (I use the caps because I'm taking about the Platonic notions, not the common use of this words). So, I understand Tarkovsky view but don't share it...
What do you think about industrial/ neofolk music? Is it a some sort of music for elite or it is a bad-promoted part of mass culture?
I don't think much about it, but what I think is not good. I hardly waste time thinking about sub-cultures and that sort of things, and when I come across with them my reaction is either depression or laughter. Depression when I see such meaningful and profound things as symbols and divinities depraved and abused (I'm thinking more about the wiccas, but that also happens with ind\neofolk). And I laugh a lot when I see bad music becoming famous because it has the "right" image and all the guys (or girls) have a great pose or dress very nicely... Being a small cultural movement, industrial\dark-folk has all the features of modern movements, the necessity of having a common background, clothes that identify its members, some fetish subjects, polemics, leaders and so on. It's not that different from blackmetal in the 90's or psychadelism in late 60's\early 70's, it simply has a different context and characteristics. That kind of cultural movements are a necessity of the modern world... I find them ultimately boring, because people that dress, think and act the same (and of course, hear the same music) are so tedious. It's like "ok, I like blackmetal I have to look mean" or "dark-folkians don't laugh just grin" or "goths are always slightly annoying yet elegant"... The poses, the poses... Of course there has to be some common interests to form a cultural movement, but there has to be also individual determinations and actions, otherwise we have just another mass... And the most important is not that you agree or disagree with this or that, it's to find your own way in the middle of all the things around you. Like all things these days, cultural movements start with lots of ideas and aspirations and in the end they turn just into another fashion. But maybe it's just me, I'm way too intolerant and demanding and I can't understand all this concern with image and pose; besides that most of "industrial\neofok" music sounds like crap to me, that idea of elite is frankly exaggerated, if not pathetic. I rarely (almost never) listen to neofolk or epic things precisely due to that pretentious attitude... There are certainly good projects of dark-ambient\industrial that grab my attention, as I prefer non-vocal long experimental pieces, but also there we find extremely bad taste and lousy music... And all the question of polemics with fascism and that sort of things, most of it is due to the simple ignorance of moderns (like thinking that the swastika is "just" a nazi symbol when it's one of the most ancient and sacred symbol of humanity) but part of it is also pose, image, style... And I sincerely don't like that sort of things; it sounds like pop music, Marilyn Manson, Michael Jackson and that circus... Lots of fireworks and little ideas.
As I said before, I have missed your latest album. Could you tell me a bit about it? Does it have a concept? And how does it differ from your previous releases?
Actually my new Wolfskin record is an old record re-made... I originally made it during 1998 and it was a very intense experience... The record deals with the importance and meaning of ritual action, mainly the fertility rituals but above all ritual action as the way of connecting with the Divine, of balancing the worlds... I was working only at night and I spent most of my days either on our farm, working in the vineyards with my grandfather, or at some silent wood reading and walking (and recording, of course). At some point I reached a very strong balance with Nature cycles and "vibrations", a balance made of silence and wind... Blood and ashes are elements I associate both to land and fertility, but also the nobility of warriors, the intoxication with natural herbs or mushrooms, the blood sacrifices, the struggle of life, the agony of death... The balance of opposite principles, the ritual actualisation of these divine energies, that's the main concept of the album. At some point during Winter I went to a pig killing, and in the middle of the frost and fog, seeing the stroke on the animal's heart and the blood flowing on our hands was like a iniciatic moment, a link between what I was thinking and what I was doing, a perfect conjugation of my spiritual and concrete worlds... The music is like this concepts, most of it has a "flowing by" quality, made of ritual and ambiental soundscapes, with occasional burst of violence (either on the form of percussive moments or by the use of uneasy sounds, like the pig dying). It's quite homogenous and nocturnal, despite some minor imperfections I'm very satisfied with it... Cthonic music, "from the land". Wolfskin is ever mutating yet remaining the same. Rituality, violence (a deeper kind of violence, the natural violence of men not the physical, direct aggression), the flooding of the senses, subtle and tenebrous discharges of both solar and lunar energies, that's what you always get from my records. This is maybe the most "organic\ritual" record I made so far, maybe both "Tornar o sangue sagrado" ("to turn blood sacred"), released on Cynfeirdd some time ago, and "O ajuntar das sombras" ("the gather of shadows"), that will be out soon on Malignant, are more aggressive and industrial than this one, but for me that's not really a difference, just a question of focus and perspective - the elements are always the same yet with different combinations between them.
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